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Mad Scientist

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Reply with quote  #46 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexalove
[. . . Titanium dioxide is a known carcinogen which can cause lung damage . . .


You are spreading folklore, not science.

The way the studies were conducted, everything is a carcinogen. I can design a study that will kill lab rats with oxygen. Should we say all over the internet that oxygen is a poison?
lexalove

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Reply with quote  #47 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Scientist
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexalove
[. . . Titanium dioxide is a known carcinogen which can cause lung damage . . .
You are spreading folklore, not science. The way the studies were conducted, everything is a carcinogen. I can design a study that will kill lab rats with oxygen. Should we say all over the internet that oxygen is a poison?

I think it's well accepted that Titanium Dioxide is a bad thing to inhale on a regular basis. Years ago people used to say cigarettes were harmless, but we know better now don't we. If you wish to take the risk that's fine, it's personal choice at the end of the day and who am I to tell you what risks to take with your own body.

I was giving advice to a fellow vaper. It is his choice if he heeds that advice or not.



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UKDTweak

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Reply with quote  #48 
Ive not used a dripper in ages so decided to give my Mutation X V2 a try again, dual coils, 26awg, 2.5mm inner dia, spaced coils, around 7 wraps, hits hard, came out about .24ohms. running at 200c. 100w pre heat and 80w normal, drops to about 75w then temp protect after about 3 seconds of a pull, which is all i can take right now thanks to a cold...

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Mad Scientist

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Reply with quote  #49 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexalove
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Scientist
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexalove
[. . . Titanium dioxide is a known carcinogen which can cause lung damage . . .
You are spreading folklore, not science. The way the studies were conducted, everything is a carcinogen. I can design a study that will kill lab rats with oxygen. Should we say all over the internet that oxygen is a poison?

I think it's well accepted that Titanium Dioxide is a bad thing to inhale on a regular basis. Years ago people used to say cigarettes were harmless, but we know better now don't we. If you wish to take the risk that's fine, it's personal choice at the end of the day and who am I to tell you what risks to take with your own body.

I was giving advice to a fellow vaper. It is his choice if he heeds that advice or not.




I'm not trying to start an argument but it's not "well accepted" and in terms of the existing panic based on conjecture rather than facts among the general public against vaping, it doesn't help us if we ourselves add to it. This is another case of repeating something often enough makes it true.

If you want to caution someone that the effects of inhaling TiO2 are not fully known and remain controversial, that's great. If you want to say some very poorly designed studies indicate inhaling ridiculously high concentrations of very fine TiO2 dust may be harmful, that's great. When you republish the garbage that it's a known carcinogen and causes lung damage, that's folklore not advice.

As far as who takes what risks, you are reading something into this conversation that's not there.
Ken Nutter

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Reply with quote  #50 
I've had better luck with TI contact coils... Also was have major issues with TC before I checked and tightened up my 510 even more...all of it have a little extra tighten. If I run much over 400 I'll get burnt... Usually around 350 somewhere
Ken Nutter

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Reply with quote  #51 
O also I dropped my ramp time to .25sec and 150°f
lexalove

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Reply with quote  #52 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Scientist
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexalove
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Scientist
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexalove
[. . . Titanium dioxide is a known carcinogen which can cause lung damage . . .
You are spreading folklore, not science. The way the studies were conducted, everything is a carcinogen. I can design a study that will kill lab rats with oxygen. Should we say all over the internet that oxygen is a poison?

I think it's well accepted that Titanium Dioxide is a bad thing to inhale on a regular basis. Years ago people used to say cigarettes were harmless, but we know better now don't we. If you wish to take the risk that's fine, it's personal choice at the end of the day and who am I to tell you what risks to take with your own body.

I was giving advice to a fellow vaper. It is his choice if he heeds that advice or not.


I'm not trying to start an argument but it's not "well accepted" and in terms of the existing panic based on conjecture rather than facts among the general public against vaping, it doesn't help us if we ourselves add to it. This is another case of repeating something often enough makes it true. If you want to caution someone that the effects of inhaling TiO2 are not fully known and remain controversial, that's great. If you want to say some very poorly designed studies indicate inhaling ridiculously high concentrations of very fine TiO2 dust may be harmful, that's great. When you republish the garbage that it's a known carcinogen and causes lung damage, that's folklore not advice. As far as who takes what risks, you are reading something into this conversation that's not there.


No idea what that last part of hyperbole meant but you do what you feel is best. Inhale as much TiO2 as you want and be happy.

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Mad Scientist

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Reply with quote  #53 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexalove
No idea what that last part of hyperbole meant but you do what you feel is best. Inhale as much TiO2 as you want and be happy.


We're not talking about how much TiO2, if any, I might or might not inhale or what I do or don't do. I have not stated what I do or don't do.

What I have stated is that it is incorrect, not to mention a bad idea, to run around perpetuating what amounts to a wives' tale about the effects of inhaling TiO2.

CloudChaser

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Reply with quote  #54 
I did a google search on "Titanium vape wire safety" and found the following link. Judge for yourself...

https://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/3aidka/pbusardo_re_titanium_wire_healthy_safe/

I never did like Ni200 wire as it's resistance characteristics drift, coils build up to easy and it adds a funky taste. My Titanium builds easily last 3 or 4 weeks. I never got that from Ni200.

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Doug
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Reply with quote  #55 
Typical actual study rather than "prevention principle":

http://annhyg.oxfordjournals.org/content/49/6/461.full

"The epidemiological investigations evaluated the mortality statistics at 11 European and 4 US TiO2 manufacturing plants. They concluded that there was no suggestion of any carcinogenic effect associated with workplace exposure to TiO2."

"The epidemiology studies investigated whether there was a link between increased incidence of lung cancer and exposure to TiO2 dust. In all the studies the overall conclusion was the same: ‘The results of the studies do not suggest a carcinogenic effect of TiO2 dust on the human lung'".

There are many more studies like this.

The thing of it is, we know that TiO2 is bad for rats but not mice or hamsters.  We can't do a controlled study on humans because that is obviously unethical.  European and US Health studies of TiO2 factory workers have not revealed an increase in cancer rates. From this it cannot be reasonably concluded that TiO2 is a hazard, yet that is exactly what was concluded by some international health organizations and then spread and repeated far and wide.

The bottom line is no scientific proof.  Yes, it might be dangerous or it might not be.  I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything but I bristle when the same junk science gets repeated over and over long enough that the general public picks it up and repeats it over and over and low and behold, something with no legitimate scientific proof becomes fact.


lexalove

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Reply with quote  #56 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Scientist
Typical actual study rather than "prevention principle":

http://annhyg.oxfordjournals.org/content/49/6/461.full

"The epidemiological investigations evaluated the mortality statistics at 11 European and 4 US TiO2 manufacturing plants. They concluded that there was no suggestion of any carcinogenic effect associated with workplace exposure to TiO2."

"The epidemiology studies investigated whether there was a link between increased incidence of lung cancer and exposure to TiO2 dust. In all the studies the overall conclusion was the same: ‘The results of the studies do not suggest a carcinogenic effect of TiO2 dust on the human lung'".

There are many more studies like this.

The thing of it is, we know that TiO2 is bad for rats but not mice or hamsters.  We can't do a controlled study on humans because that is obviously unethical.  European and US Health studies of TiO2 factory workers have not revealed an increase in cancer rates. From this it cannot be reasonably concluded that TiO2 is a hazard, yet that is exactly what was concluded by some international health organizations and then spread and repeated far and wide.

The bottom line is no scientific proof.  Yes, it might be dangerous or it might not be.  I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything but I bristle when the same junk science gets repeated over and over long enough that the general public picks it up and repeats it over and over and low and behold, something with no legitimate scientific proof becomes fact.




So you admit there is no scientific proof either way. Therefore me, you, nobody knows for a fact if it's harmful or not. So regarding vaping on a Ti coil that may have oxidisation on  it, why take the risk when there is no need to?

I advised the poster to bin his coil after he had an obvious hot spot, wire is relatively cheap, there is no need to take the risk no matter how small any perceived risk may be. Just wrap another coil, vape and be happy.

Don't perpetuate one myth by denouncing another perceived myth when NOBODY really knows the facts either way.



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Mad Scientist

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Reply with quote  #57 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexalove
So you admit there is no scientific proof either way. Therefore me, you, nobody knows for a fact if it's harmful or not. So regarding vaping on a Ti coil that may have oxidisation on  it, why take the risk when there is no need to?

I advised the poster to bin his coil after he had an obvious hot spot, wire is relatively cheap, there is no need to take the risk no matter how small any perceived risk may be. Just wrap another coil, vape and be happy.

Don't perpetuate one myth by denouncing another perceived myth when NOBODY really knows the facts either way.




Look, you said TiO2 is a "carcinogen and causes lung damage."  That's all I disagree with.  I think I've been crystal clear.

I never said I use Ti or don't.  I never said it was safe or not safe.  All I said is that the statement you made is not backed by the science, is nothing more than folklore, and it is a bad idea to continue to repeat it.

Your aim is, I believe, to warn folks that vaping TiO2 might not be a good idea.  Why don't you just say that?
lexalove

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Reply with quote  #58 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Scientist
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexalove
So you admit there is no scientific proof either way. Therefore me, you, nobody knows for a fact if it's harmful or not. So regarding vaping on a Ti coil that may have oxidisation on  it, why take the risk when there is no need to?

I advised the poster to bin his coil after he had an obvious hot spot, wire is relatively cheap, there is no need to take the risk no matter how small any perceived risk may be. Just wrap another coil, vape and be happy.

Don't perpetuate one myth by denouncing another perceived myth when NOBODY really knows the facts either way.




Look, you said TiO2 is a "carcinogen and causes lung damage."  That's all I disagree with.  I think I've been crystal clear.

I never said I use Ti or don't.  I never said it was safe or not safe.  All I said is that the statement you made is not backed by the science, is nothing more than folklore, and it is a bad idea to continue to repeat it.

Your aim is, I believe, to warn folks that vaping TiO2 might not be a good idea.  Why don't you just say that?


OK Mr Pedantic lol, vaping TiO2 is not a good idea it may be carcinogenic.

So instead of all the diatribe why not just say it may not be carcinogenic, nothing is proven one way or the other, but it would be a good idea to bin the coil?


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Mad Scientist

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Reply with quote  #59 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexalove
OK Mr Pedantic lol, vaping TiO2 is not a good idea it may be carcinogenic.

So instead of all the diatribe why not just say it may not be carcinogenic, nothing is proven one way or the other, but it would be a good idea to bin the coil?



No diatribe on this end.  Whatever, I'm done. Hugs lol.
Ken Nutter

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Reply with quote  #60 
20awg square TI... Ahhhhh its OK... Going to try Clapton TI now that I got more wire and a couple smaller gauges.

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