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Jaquith

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Reply with quote  #46 
I just meant Clapton's require a fair amount of power and drain any battery quickly. The USA wire I purchased from Amazon is Beadalon wire.

The stability I'm getting with Titanium / Kanthal is very good but I had to adjust the CSV file.

Phil is using what appears to be welding wire, guessing, a Weldcote or Harris MIG spool and yeah in 'bulk' it's cheap; aka RE316L.

Keep in mind, I think a lot of this 316L/317L, probably MIG, is Chinese and they don't make this wire for our purpose of vaping and inhalation. Here's something to read http://m.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/support/welding-how-to/Pages/mig-wire-selection-detail.aspx

The more I know the less I trust especially when I see distinct TCR variations. I wouldn't be surprised even if (most) Titanium Grade 1 has its origins in China.

I'm for more testing and verifications.
jj6404

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Reply with quote  #47 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaquith
Quote:
Originally Posted by jj6404
Ah. So do you think I should continue to use the build I already made and eventually the "gunk" may burn off? Or should I just ditch it?

I'd just clean it, take the deck off the Atty and soak it, rinse and brush, repeat then dry burn on low. Making a Clapton is a pain. 


So I took the cotton out, soaked my deck in alcohol for like 10 min, then rinsed it under water. Then I fiddled with it with my screwdriver to get out hot spots (it's ever so slightly spaced) and pulsed it at 20W until it glowed a few times dull orange in the center of both coils. I made a CSV with the Wire Wizard on Steam Engine and it seems to be working fine. The flavor so far is pretty clean but not as dense and juicy as I expect yet from a clapton.

So what I don't like about this is that since the Ti is wrapped in KA1, I can't see the color of the Ti wire. I'm worried (like always) that I might have formed Titanium oxide because I let it glow orange, not bright orange, but orange. Do you think I would taste it if there was ti oxide?
Jaquith

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Reply with quote  #48 
No you're not tasting Ti02 and the natural formation Type (IV) with large particulates isn't the 'harmful' type anyway. Harmful isn't the food grade, natural, either aka in the recent past on your donuts. Instead the harmful type TiO2 is produced commercially and in a heavily acidic bath.

As far as Clapton's vs Clapton's .. Ti/Ka vs what in comparison (wire & gauges)?

Glad to hear you found a CSV that's working.
jj6404

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Reply with quote  #49 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaquith
No you're not tasting Ti02 and the natural formation Type (IV) with large particulates isn't the 'harmful' type anyway. Harmful isn't the food grade, natural, either aka in the recent past on your donuts. Instead the harmful type TiO2 is produced commercially and in a heavily acidic bath. As far as Clapton's vs Clapton's .. Ti/Ka vs what in comparison (wire & gauges)? Glad to hear you found a CSV that's working.


Well I guess what I'm comparing the taste to is what claptons I've vaped before: 26gN80/36gKA1. These are 24gTi1/36gKA1. But its been so long since I vaped those N80/KA1 claptons that its not a fair comparison. Plus I'm more familiar with vaping N80/KA1 fused claptons, 26gN80/36gKA1 to be exact. I guess I was hoping the flavor would be similar to that though I'm not saying it is bad at all.
Jaquith

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Reply with quote  #50 
The differences in coiling are going to be wire surface area, power, temperature and any 'coloring' from the wire itself ( metallic taste ). That's assuming a verbatim Atty, setup and juice.

My insanity today is looking at pure Platinum ($150 / foot 0.5 mm). Even Steam Engine doesn't have data. I know the ML Class has a profile which is why I'm thinking about it. Platinum doesn't oxidize, its melting temperature is simular to Titanium, noble metal .. and wow expensive. I mentioned it once in this post, but I'm curious if you've considered it?
jj6404

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Reply with quote  #51 
Well I have not considered it and I have to say that I don't really plan on considering it unless the price you stated is a typo LOL. $150 per foot?! I haven't even given my wife anything in platinum yet!
Gm111

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Reply with quote  #52 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaquith
The differences in coiling are going to be wire surface area, power, temperature and any 'coloring' from the wire itself ( metallic taste ). That's assuming a verbatim Atty, setup and juice. My insanity today is looking at pure Platinum ($150 / foot 0.5 mm). Even Steam Engine doesn't have data. I know the ML Class has a profile which is why I'm thinking about it. Platinum doesn't oxidize, its melting temperature is simular to Titanium, noble metal .. and wow expensive. I mentioned it once in this post, but I'm curious if you've considered it?


You'd need a coil to last you a year, imagine the price of a staggered fused clapton!! How about gold or silver?
Jaquith

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Reply with quote  #53 
No doubt the cost of Platinum or Gold makes it for the uber Hobbyist; their cost is very close, Platinum is about 20% less but it's more rare. The couple studies that I've briefly read suggests Platinum shows the least toxicity with Gold coming very close, but Silver showed levels of toxicity so that metal is probably one that I'd skip certainly for long-term.

Here's one thought, while I'm a decent 'coiler' lol I'm not perfect and I've certainly screwed up coils that I tossed out and when it's say Kanthal or as it should (cost) Stainless Steel it's no big deal .. lessons learned and you move on. But screw up a Platinum or Gold coil and you're going to be devastated. :-(

Although, sporting around a Gold coil would be cool!

Here's one brief I read over (Au, Pt, Ag), you can download the abstract http://www.researchgate.net/publication/50591381_Comparison_of_the_Toxicity_of_Silver_Gold_and_Platinum_Nanoparticles_in_Developing_Zebrafish_Embryos

Platinum (Amazon hurry only 9 left lol) http://www.amazon.com/Platinum-Gauge-99-9-Round-Inches/dp/B008GWOAMI
Platinum (cheaper again lol; we could group buy 150' for only $9,000) http://www.surepure.com/Platinum-Wire-Rod-0.020-in.-0.5-mm-24-gauge-Platinum-Wire-Rod-99.95-Percent/a/9,145,28,1,824#purity
Jentz9517

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Reply with quote  #54 
Hey David! Did you receive my note in your inbox ? It's not showing receipt? No rush..
Jaquith

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Reply with quote  #55 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jentz9517
Hey David! Did you receive my note in your inbox ? It's not showing receipt? No rush..

I'm still on my phone (away from my PC with its data files), soon, sorry for the delay.
Gm111

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Reply with quote  #56 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaquith
No doubt the cost of Platinum or Gold makes it for the uber Hobbyist; their cost is very close, Platinum is about 20% less but it's more rare. The couple studies that I've briefly read suggests Platinum shows the least toxicity with Gold coming very close, but Silver showed levels of toxicity so that metal is probably one that I'd skip certainly for long-term. Here's one thought, while I'm a decent 'coiler' lol I'm not perfect and I've certainly screwed up coils that I tossed out and when it's say Kanthal or as it should (cost) Stainless Steel it's no big deal .. lessons learned and you move on. But screw up a Platinum or Gold coil and you're going to be devastated. :-( Although, sporting around a Gold coil would be cool! Here's one brief I read over (Au, Pt, Ag), you can download the abstract http://www.researchgate.net/publication/50591381_Comparison_of_the_Toxicity_of_Silver_Gold_and_Platinum_Nanoparticles_in_Developing_Zebrafish_Embryos Platinum (Amazon hurry only 9 left lol) http://www.amazon.com/Platinum-Gauge-99-9-Round-Inches/dp/B008GWOAMI Platinum (cheaper again lol; we could group buy 150' for only $9,000) http://www.surepure.com/Platinum-Wire-Rod-0.020-in.-0.5-mm-24-gauge-Platinum-Wire-Rod-99.95-Percent/a/9,145,28,1,824#purity

I see what your saying but TC is meant too stop the coil heating up until it gets to the level of toxicity, and surely ni200/ titanium is more toxic than silver/sterling silver.. 
Jaquith

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Reply with quote  #57 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gm111


I see what your saying but TC is meant too stop the coil heating up until it gets to the level of toxicity, and surely ni200/ titanium is more toxic than silver/sterling silver.. 


That study was about heavy metals, (Au, Pt, Ag), nanoparticles absorption and abnormalities / levels observed and their effects on sensitive embryos. Noble metals are metals that are resistant to corrosion and oxidation in the atmosphere. Gold (Au) and Platinum (Pt) are examples of Noble metals, Silver (Ag) and Titanium (Ti) can oxidize, Silver easily. However, Titanium is a Biocompatible metal, meaning it does not react on a cellular level ie is safe. Let me put it this way, Titanium, non alloy Grades 1-5, is by far the safest 'affordable' metal that can be used in vaping and in particular works well in TC. Yep, you can indeed IF the metal gets too hot, form Ti02 Titanium Dioxide once the metal starts glowing a 'yellowish' color. Now if you never pulse Titainium to clean and use in TC then you have nothing to be concerned about, Ti02 will not form, not even close in the 600F, Ti02 forms when it reacts with O2 >2,100 F!

I'm a Chemist by education and all of this information is easily Google'd and verifiable.

What happened, the FEAR of Ti02, was Stealth Vape had some Voodoo science web page with shards of Titaium going up in flames (ever see what happens to steel wool and a 9V battery?) and NOT knowing the difference between commercially produced nanoparticles and those that form on 'heated wire exposed to air.' Now Stealth Vapes is selling Titainum Grade 1 wire .. to which they said the 'never would sell' .. yeah right!

LOL this same argument goes on with Stainless Steel vs Titanium cookware .. hint you're at risk with SS cookware .. so why is it used .. simple money, the cost of Titanium cookware is 10X or more than SS. Money vs Health.

From what I'm reading, Platinum is safer, it's a Noble metal and will not oxidize, works in TC .. BUT .. $70 / coil vs <$0.50 / coil using Titanium. At any giving point I'm using a dozen Atty's and many with 2 coils so say (18 coils * $70/coil) = $1,260 and lets hope I don't screw-up a coil or two or three! 
Jalcide

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Reply with quote  #58 
David, thanks a ton for your work on your v3.25 SS profile. It's the only profile of many I've acquired that delivers a smooth vape in my build.

[thumb]

(And why the heck aren't these other profiles from Steam, Lost Vape, etc. working well? Is it a raw data issue, a DNA 200 issue? Maybe my SS wire has an unconventional mix?)
Jaquith

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Reply with quote  #59 
I've wondered the same, the weirdest was Sweet Spot Vapors 'Titanium,' it's actually an alloy and not Grade 1-5, but their published CSV files for their 0.4 and 0.5 mm will light my cotton on fire and partially glow the wire at 450F.

So sure it's possible something is off from Evolv.

However, in contrast the Titanium Grade 1, for me, was about 40-50 F too cool. So I fixed those as well.

BTW .. I made a V 3.125 which is inbetween.
Jalcide

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Reply with quote  #60 
Thanks, David. Excellent. Please do post the 3.125, I'd like to give it a try.

I've been tweaking the values on my own, too, but it's a game of wack-a-mole. Amazing how small the values need to be to affect huge differences in the vape.

It's great that we have the ability to do this ourselves in the DNA 200, it seems no mod maker, with pre-build values, or simple, single TCR values has nailed it yet.
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