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LeeWB3

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Reply with quote  #1 
I have a Hobo-X (actually, 3). I also have two VapeDroid C1D2s. The Hobo-Xs are at defaults and the C1D2s are calibrated for mod resistance and case numbers as closely as I can get them.

I built a 5 wrap 28g/40gX2/40g SS Staggered Fused Clapton in a NarTA. The VapeDroid C1D2 and the Hobo-X are calibrated so both read it as EXACTLY 0.418 ohms cold. I have left them overnight on both devices several times and that's just what both give me. That took a 0.005 in mod resistance on the VapeDroid and a 0.004 on the Hobo-X (which is the Hobo's default). Both devices are using the exact same SS316L profile from Steam-Engine. Both are set at 50W pre-heat with 6.5 punch.

With both set to a 520°F temp and a run wattage at 32.5W, the VapeDroid goes IMMEDIATELY to the 520°F while the Hobo-X never even reaches it. I dropped the wattage on the VapeDroid to 31.5W and raised the temp to 570 instead and graphed as shown in attached. Note that the C1D2 is on the left and the Hobo-X is on the right. Cold ohms were 0.418 for both during both runs..

After dropping the wattage on the VapeDroid to the 31.5W instead of 32.5W, you can see that they are now applying the exact same Voltage and the curves actually start looking the same between the two - except the VapeDroid is reading 50 °F hotter because it's reading the warm ohms as 0.517 instead of 0.509. They vape the same setup this way.

Is this simply unavoidable? I was big on getting the mods calibrated correctly, but this kinda implies that whole goal of correctly setting Mod Resistance so cold ohms read the same on every device doesn't necessarily actually end up in the same place because the ohms are changing more on the VapeDroid than they are on the Hobo-X. Only thing I can figure is the internal wiring and 510 of the VapeDroid at temp is adding 0.01 ohms that the Hobo-X isn't? I do see that the board temp of the VapeDroid is WAY higher than the Hobo-X.

Should I just give it up and just set the VapeDroid at 570 °F and vape the darn thing? Kinda throws the "well, 470°F is good for fruits, 510°F is good for custards", etc. out the window. I'm kinda leaning toward setting up all variables on the Hobo-X (I trust them) for each atty and then installing on mod I want to use them on and adjusting temp until the curves look the same...... 17311756_10155847965389908_16711233_o.png 

Wayneo

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Reply with quote  #2 
So from all of that and your print screens,
  • neither mod is hitting the temperature you've set.
  • You describe a claptionized coil, which IMHO needs much more than ~30 watts for initial heating. I'd suggest you set both mods to at least 100w and do some print screens at that setting. 
Couple more things. Let each mod and atty sit for 5-10 minutes before using in TC so we're sure you're using a room temp mod and atty. Also, please include a print screen of your profile setting. You're at least half way there. [thumb]

Edit: if your concern is Mod Calibration, what is the current setting for Mod resistance of each?

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LeeWB3

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Reply with quote  #3 

A)  As stated in the original post, the VapeDroid hits the 520°F set temperature immediately (in much less than a second) with the Pre-heat set at 50W and the run wattage set at 32.5W.  I did not show that run because that doesn't illustrate the problem.  As your edit surmised, the concern is basically mod calibration.  Or more precisely mod calibration while firing.

B)  I realize it was a guess, but the specific single coil clapton (staggered 28g) doesn't need anywhere near 100W to reach temperature.  Since you've asked for it, here is a Hobo run at 50W, which is plenty as you can see (note ohms were locked so I could switch back and forth between the two devices without it asking or accidentally changing to new, warm ohms).  Do you need to see a run with the VapeDroid as well.  I must admit I don't understand how it relates to what I'm asking but I could certainly provide.  Basically it just hits faster and throttles more because it's misreading the ohms while under load.

2017-03-14.png 

C)  Not sure if you use SS much, but if you do I'm sure you know that 10 minutes is not NEARLY long enough for the coil to reach room temp in a clapton.  Maybe you were more focused on the mod?  I always let SS refine overnight before thinking I have a good ohm reading.  Doing that for both they give 0.418 with the mod resistances I've set after 9 hours or so of cooling.  The runs in the original post were done with cool mods other than the heat raised as I was firing them to get the runs (it took a couple to figure out how high to raise the temp on the VapeDroid to get it to run the same voltage without throttling.)

D) All variables on the Escribe screen were given in the original post, but if it helps to see in one place, they were:  Wattage: 32.5W, 520°F, 50W Pre-heat, 6.5 Punch, 3seconds.  If you like it graphically, they are exactly as shown in the screen cap above, except wattage was 32.5W rather than the 50W I used to show it'll reach temp.

D)  To answer your edit, because this IS about calibration (more or less), as stated in the original post the Mod resistance of the VapeDroid was 0.005 and the Mod Resistance of the Hobo X was 0.004.

E)  If that answered your questions, perhaps restating the actual question would be helpful.  The VapeDroid is calibrated cold to the same settings as the Hobo X.  However, when the VapeDroid hits the same RTA/coil with the same voltage it shows a significantly higher (for SS) change in resistance.  I chose to show voltage rather than the more common wattage because wattage depends upon a known ohms and that is what appears to be off.  The higher change in resistance causes the VapeDroid to believe it is running significantly hotter than the Hobo X thinks it runs.  Again, with identical settings.

F)  I am being told that the spring changing resistance in the VapeDroid 510 as it gets warm is most likely the culprit, but don't know what to do about it.

Wayneo

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Reply with quote  #4 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeWB3
I built a 5 wrap 28g/40gX2/40g SS Staggered Fused Clapton .....

@LeeWB3 You described a large surface are coil that showed it was not even hitting your set temp AT ALL in 6 screen puffs. I only suggested a much higher wattage so we/you could actually see the power required to get there. The speed getting there is a balancing act between the other parameters, and I'm quite sure you've been told that.

At no point did I even remotely insinute this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeWB3
A) Not everyone WANTS to hit temperature quickly like you're talking about......
so to be argumentative you then go on to describe a completely different coil
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeWB3
Hitting a single 5 wrap small gauge coil with 100W would instantly lock you to a single temperature
I take it you're having a bad day. Relax man.

And as you say

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeWB3
E) I am being told the spring in the VapeDroid 510 is most likely the culprit, but don't know what to do about it.
why not just ask what the fix was.

Have a good day, I hope you solve your issues .... whatever they are. My comments are obviously of no value to you, so I won't be reading or replying. [wave] 


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LeeWB3

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Reply with quote  #5 

I understand you won't read this, but nevertheless I will apologize.  I have revised my initial response above to more directly answer the questions you asked and not be as.argumentative.

Maybe I was having a bad day.  When I read your response it just struck me that that you hadn't actually read my post because all the questions you asked were specifically answered in that unedited post.  Then some of your comments seemed quite obviously inconsistent with my experience such as suggesting 100W on that single coil (which I knew to need less than 50W to reach temp).

In actual fact I should have been more considered in my response and realized that the problem MUST have been that I wasn't being clear enough in actually stating the problem, how I was demonstrating the problem and what kind of help I was looking for.  In case that's still not clear (and it may not be), in a nut shell it is "What do you do about a mod that reads more change in resistance than is actually occurring?  Other than, I guess, just turning up the temperature to obviously wrong numbers."

So, again, I apologize for reacting like I did.

dwcraig1

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Reply with quote  #6 
Generally when resistance increases more than it should is the result of a poor connection, wonky 510, atty posts connection to coil legs, adjustable atty 510 or just plain poor atty for TC.
Just some examples of the top of my head.

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LeeWB3

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Reply with quote  #7 

Thank you for your response.  Of the items off the top of your head, all are possible but a few seem less likely in my specific case - I definitely believe as good a connection as could be achieved was achieved since I cleaned the 510 with a cue tip and it was screwed down well and atomizer analyzer didn't show much movement at all.  I think the fact that it's working well on the Hobo-X suggests it's not the atty posts.  And this particular atty is a NarTA which several friends VERY knowledgeable about TC are using quite successfully (and it works well with the hobo).

That kinda points more toward wonky 510 - The VapeDroid certainly has a spring loaded adjustable 510.  I hate to hear that this might be the issue because it was pretty well reviewed by so many of the better reviewers.  However, I'm tending to think that IS the problem and maybe the spring is causing a resistance rise that it shouldn't.  Guess I can always just adjust by feel.

Don't know exactly what I'll do about it, but again, thanks for pointing me more toward the right thing to look at.

Wayneo

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Reply with quote  #8 

Thanks @LeeWB3. We're all good, I'm just trying to help, and my post was just intended to get my noodle to my starting point.  [thumb]

@dwcraig is much more knowledgable than I, but I'll re-read everything again, post coffee, to see if I have any thoughts.  [smile]


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LeeWB3

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayneo

Thanks @LeeWB3. We're all good



Thanks for you understanding. Guess I wasn't my best self that particular minute.

For now I've just moved the NarTA with SS to a different mod and put a RTA with SSV on the VapeDroid. The SSV is a LOT less sensitive to this minor increase in resistance and I just add 10-20 °F to compensate.

black lace

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Reply with quote  #10 
Like you said on (f) at #3 a frail connection can also be at the coils or bad coil, good enough to take a reading as 'sound' but as soon as power is applied it starts failing at that point. Am puzzeled as to why a 510 mod spring would cause a problem, the board power out is connected to the 510 pin and not the spring that it floats on.
dwcraig1

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Reply with quote  #11 
Atomizer Analyzer is useful for determining if good contact is being made between the 510 positive pins, if contact is being made only at the point that the atty is screwed all the way in then AA will show that. I have one mod where it starts connecting at the start of screwing an atty on. A very weak spring might cause weak connection....perhaps. (not because it, the spring, is conducting power but because it's not pushing against the atty'y 510 pin firm enough)
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black lace

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Reply with quote  #12 
I can see that, fair comment, there is a lot of poor quality about these days and you just dont see the old style manual ajustable screw type centerpins (510 on mod) like on the mech mods available for swapping out.
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