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James

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Reply with quote  #16 
Incidentally, in your video... when you switched to Kanthal, it removed the Ohm lock?
James

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Reply with quote  #17 
AllenH, when are the Ohms changing exactly? Atomizer Analyzer shows raw (not cold) resistance, so when the coil is hot it will show a higher resistance.

Or are yours all over the place while the atomizer is completely cold?
Locking Ohms will cause it to ask you less about whether it's a new coil, but it cannot fix the underlying problem if your cold Ohms are bouncing all over the place.
That would indicate a bad connection, most likely.
AllenH

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Reply with quote  #18 
Hi James,

Ok, I've complicated things un-necessarily here, I apologize.  I was attempting to give as much information as possible.  I wanted to lock ohms because I was getting that standard creep with refinement seen in DNA40.  At this time I think it may also be related to a bad hit I've had in the past (hence wanting to stop it) - but for now I can't say that it is.  However, here are the issues that I see currently (at least one of them is similar to vaporlips):

1) With ohms locked, temp protection kicks in immediately after the first vape.  Can practically not get a single vape after that initial temp protection.
2) related to (1) I sometimes see the locked ohms changing, even though they are locked. (hard to reproduce and catch)
3) related to (1) I sometimes see temp in temp-protection mode with ohms locked jump up to 600 F etc. (certainly not real temps) (also hard to reproduce and catch)
4) (I think I saw the same thing on vaporlips screen, but can't be sure) - in Atomizer Analyzer, if my ohms are locked previously, I can get no cold-ohms reading showing up- only a "?" appears in the "cold ohms" designated spot in the Atomizer Analyzer.

Other things that have happened that likely need a different thread:
5) An insanely hot and dry vape that practically exploded in my mouth with a vape - however, I have been unable to reproduce this at this time.

I recently updated the firmware to the latest firmware as of 7/13/15, and I have noticed that with Ohms *Unlocked* temp protection is working well, and I can vape through a good portion of remaining e-liquid on the cotton.  This is what makes for an enjoyable device!  However, this is definitely not the experience with Ohms Locked! (see the above, as well as vaporlips video)
vaporlips

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Reply with quote  #19 

Allen,

When we are locking the ohms,  I was assuming that the purpose of this is to lock the ohms on the display, as well as locking the cold "resting rate" resistance for our atomizer.

Is this what that ohm lock is designed to do?

OR!

Is it literally locking the ohms on our device so that the board it self see's absolutely no change in resistance while we are vaping.  Which in turn, if working properly would eliminate the function of temperature controlled vaping.

Either way, it doesn't seem to be working correctly.

I am loving my DNA200 regardless.  Thank you Evolv.


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AllenH

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Reply with quote  #20 
Hi Vaporlips!

I don't think the intended result is that it kills temp protection... I suspect it only removes refinement.  So, once read, the ohms are kept/locked, and then future changes to resistance are used to calculate the temp.  However, since temp protection works by way of the change of resistance with heat, I'm now wondering if there's a problem with the temp calculation with the ohms locked.

Going to send you a note about your experiences here in pm - I'm experiencing a few more things that have got to be bugs- wondering if you have also.

-A
James

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Reply with quote  #21 
What do you mean by standard creep in refinement, by the way? If your connection is good, your resistance should be more or less stable. How far is it moving?

Incidentally for the beta we did make a custom 510 connector because we found some 510s had abominable resistance stability (also, 200W sustained is too much for many).
KTMRider

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Reply with quote  #22 
I've had at most a .01Ω fluctuation in resistance in any of my DNA40's (VS rDNA40, VS DNA40, Hana V4, 3 built with VT 510's) and I know it's my atomizers (KF v4's). If it moves more than that, it's your build, atomizer or 510 connector. 
VapingBad

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Reply with quote  #23 
Same as KTMRider, except for atties with aluminium 510 that need more regular cleaning or just plane poor atties (form a connection perspective).
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AllenH

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Reply with quote  #24 
Hi guys!  Well, it certainly could be the atty here.  My dual coil ni200 28 ga wire builds are coming out around 0.08 ohms initially.  They often creep up to around 0.13 ohms (when things got crazy hot).  When I think I got my bad hit, it was showing 0.3 ohms.  I'd like to mention that I've also seen the ohms change even when locked.  So, even if my atty is at fault here, the ohms shouldn't creep up in that condition.

My last build on my RDA was tight, no screw slipping, even after vaping the night before.  After refinement in the evening with charging, that 0.08 had went up to 0.13, and was just not vapable in a non-locked ohm condition.  This is on the beta mod box.  I was getting burning tastes, which means the 230C the device was claiming was just not correct.  The RDA was heating very fast in that condition.  So, I retired the RDA for today's vaping.  Decided to use my subtank mini today with lower wattage, and it's been acting fine since I changed the RTA this morning (0.15 build on the RBA deck, single coil).  So, my RDA does appear to be worse at this than my RTA, but I haven't used my subtank before today, so we'll see if it experiences the same thing as my RDA.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts here.  I definitely understand this whole thing is a system, and that the chip can't control everything.  I do question the 230C issue... should it really be hitting so high and still claiming 230 on the board?  All coils are tight etc., and was cold from the overnight charge and overnight refinement.
James

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Reply with quote  #25 
AllenH, are you getting the 0.13 in the Atomizer Analyzer, or is it displaying that on-screen?

Cold Ohms are only shown when in TC. Kanthal displays live Ohms. This is a cosmetic difference -- if it has the wrong one, it should switch over quickly. Unrelated to Ohm lock generally, but I did find a bug in Atomizer Analyzer's Override Ohms, by the way, and we are testing a fix for that now. Good find.

Next time you leave it overnight, you could try logging refinement to see what it's getting. In Help->About, left click seven times on the Evolv logo. Then, go into Device Monitor. I'd log Sample Ohms, Sample Temp, Cold Ohms, and probably Board Temp and Pack Voltage for good measure. Have it Record to a CSV. Those should be able to tell you if the refinement is getting values that are at least consistent.

Another thing you might want to look at is resistance stability. Try going into Atomizer Analyzer and screwing in your atomizer. I actually tested an atomizer at one point where too loose *and* too tight would cause poor contact, and resistance would even change significantly over a quarter turn. Was eye-opening. Atomizer Analyzer'll sample it while you do that so you can play around and see if that's an issue.
AllenH

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Reply with quote  #26 
A quarter turn, eh? Yikes.  Yes, I'll play around more.  If I can find the issue with these hot vapes, I'd be a happy camper.  I saw the newly designed 510- it's interesting.  BTW- is it robust?  Or could it be broken?  My atty doesn't sit down flush to the edges (both subtank mini and RDA but the mini is better)- I don't want to break it! [smile]  [I am tightening it pretty tight right now though- knowing the earlier problems with bad connectivities were part of the refinement problem for everyone on the DNA40.]

Thanks for the suggestions!  I'll try the RDA refinement as suggested, and also playing in the atomizer analyzer much more!
James

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Reply with quote  #27 
Well, that was an *especially* bad one. We puzzled over it for a while. IIRC it's what prompted us to *make* Atomizer Analyzer. [tongue]
AllenH

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Reply with quote  #28 
Well- I realize these things are often made with materials that have their own TCR as well as who knows what types of internal connections- if they're secure or not.. So, it certainly could be.  I will say the build appeared stable in Atomizer Analyzer to me, but I never screwed it in and out of the 510.  Not a bad idea at all.. and I also didn't vape on it while watching the resistance etc.  And the recording of the data for refinement is a good idea. [smile]  With the addition of the carbon deposit, I would expect some resistance to possible go down, not up... which is what was confusing me about the more dirty coils going from 0.08-0.13+.  I'll do some playing!  Thanks, James!
James

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Reply with quote  #29 
Hmm.
That seems like a very large resistance change for a dirty coil... I wouldn't think it should vary that much. The Nautilus Mini I test with does not vary much.
Atomizer Analyzer won't update resistance while firing, though Device Monitor will.
AllenH

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Reply with quote  #30 
Ok- good info all around, James.  So, on the display on the device, only "cold ohms" will be shown for a TC Ni200 coil.  I assume if there are changes (in unlocked mode) that this will be a change to the cold ohms due to refinement.  Now, in ohms locked mode, there shouldn't be a change, right?  I'll have to play with ohms locked mode more.  Thanks for your help!
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