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Wayneo

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Reply with quote  #16 
Not sure what you mean by the "29 hour problem". - That was meant for @giz.

On a first look, I see nothing wrong with your settings. I'll have to ponder on this for a while

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sdmf74

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Reply with quote  #17 
Yeah its got me stumped, ive tried everything I can think of and I just grabbed my new serpent mini that I havent even used yet and built a coil with some 26awg UD 316l and it vapes fine at a much lower temp so it does seem to be just the eleaf SS coils and some of the aspires too
but Ill have to retest with them (aspires) its been a while.
ChunkyButt200

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Reply with quote  #18 
since i've been vaping SS316L, i have noticed i always have to ramp my temps up, way up, sometimes reaching close to the 600F mark. so you're not alone @sdmf74. i find i have to crank my temps after refinement has had time to refine the res. funny thing is, after refinement if i set any of DNA's to the 550F mark, the temp is actually more around 460-490 avg. this was measured with a DMM thermocouple. also, 600F barley browns dry new cotton, take from that what you will. super accurate thermocouple? probably not but i do know what a 550F vape should feel like with the same mass (gauge and wraps) coil setup of a different material. and all of my DNA's are dialed in - case analyzer, copper plug for mod res, spaced coils, tight connections, clean 510's, stock 316 curve etc etc etc.

my workaround, lock the resistance as soon as the atty with SS is installed. don't give refinement a chance to lower the base resistance. this is my preference. some see locking the res as the anti christ. i see it as another tool to get the vape i want.

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• I am not employed by nor do I represent Evolv Inc.  All opinions are my own, they are just opinion not fact and can be wrong •
Latest versions of EScribe: DNA 200 • DNA 75  Common problems
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sdmf74

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Reply with quote  #19 
I agree with everything you said that's why I think evolv should look into allowing for a higher temp setting, if its not possible to only allow higher temp for ss materials then raise it across the board. I don't see why this can't be done with a firmware update as one other person argued.
I have read other threads similar to mine so I know it's not just me having temp issues with stainless steel wire.

I will try your suggestion but I think a better solution could be had with help from evolv.
ChunkyButt200

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdmf74
I agree with everything you said that's why I think evolv should look into allowing for a higher temp setting, if its not possible to only allow higher temp for ss materials then raise it across the board. I don't see why this can't be done with a firmware update as one other person argued. I have read other threads similar to mine so I know it's not just me having temp issues with stainless steel wire. I will try your suggestion but I think a better solution could be had with help from evolv.
i don't think they'll be able to raise the temp limit of a specific wire material. because the 200-600F spectrum is generically used for all TC wires. singling out just 316 isn't really a viable option. you can tweak the CSV or TCR (whichever you use) to dial in your specific SS. this is actually why 600F feels like 500F with some SS. just because it says "SS316" on the spool doesn't mean one size fits all or CSV curve/TCR fits all 316. if i wasn't so lazy, i would tweak my 316 curve in escribe to my liking. locking in the first read res reading is just easier for me. just some ideas for ya.

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1.21 JIGAWATTS............GREAT SCOTT!........WHAT THE HELL IS A JIGAWATT?
• I am not employed by nor do I represent Evolv Inc.  All opinions are my own, they are just opinion not fact and can be wrong •
Latest versions of EScribe: DNA 200 • DNA 75  Common problems
EVOLV HELP DESK - https://helpdesk.evolvapor.com/?a=add
LOST VAPE WARRANTY REPAIR - http://www.lostvaperepaircenter.com
dylang919

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Reply with quote  #21 
I usually use advanced vape supply 316l or temco and depending on the style of build, my Temps range from around 470 to 520. Now 520 to me is on the high side when wanting a temp controlled vape, bUT it vapes fine at that temp with no bad tastes. Could be just the way that particular brand of wire is made. That's what I've chalked it up too. I also use preheat with a small punch.
sdmf74

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Reply with quote  #22 
I think its a well known fact that SS wire requires a much higher temp setting on the device. At least when building our own coils we have more control over the quality of vape we get, not so much with manufactured coils.
I tried locking the resistance and it didn't seem to help much. I wish I had a complete understanding on how to adjust the tcr to counter the shortcoming of the DNA devices. I've tried to research it a couple times just couldn't find a whole lot of good info on it and I'm not sure it would even help much with SS anyway.
After all when the first devices with tc came out and the temperature range was established with a max of 600F SS wire wasn't even considered as a possible wire material so it should be obvious to evolv that raising the temperature to meet the needs of new materials is a good solution even if it just to 650 or 700F.

I'm curious does evolv pop in on threads any more? I know they used to participate in the forums quite a bit. I would be interested to get their take on the situation.
awsum140

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Reply with quote  #23 
I really don't think the problem is the chipset or the software.  The biggest problem is finding the right TCR curve for the specific wire being used.  Even relatively minor changes along the curve will effect how well it vapes.  That's not chipset/DNA related, it's more related to inconsistencies in the wire types and the specific run of the wire or even variations inside a small roll or wire.  Stainless does seem to be more prone to this problem though. The biggest problem is that without a lab quality micro ohmmeter it becomes a "by guess and by gosh" operation and leaves you wondering just what the real temperature of the build is.
Wayneo

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Reply with quote  #24 

TLDR; Try my Goldilocks method.

Hey @sdmf74 I think VB said it best "True, but I don't think it is getting anywhere 600 F in this case" when even you get different results with your known/handbuilt coils/wire. SS being an alloy, we all know the wire composition can vary batch. We also know how honest China companies are.

Are there any other TC coils you could try for that tank, or a rebuildable deck option?

Other than, why not try @Chunky's suggestion of modifying the curve or a custom TCR for those coils.
Here's what I'd do (as I don't have a thermoprobe, and you want to rule out a connection issue).

Create a material type with a TCR value of 120 (.00120) name it tcr120, and another of 140.
Load them both on your mod either in a new profile or just material type

With your ohms not locked try your coil at your regular 600F with your regular profile.
Let your resistance refine

Change to new material type (tcr120 or tcr140) without removing atty AND also adjust/Set your temp at what you normally like/remember (4xx - 5xx) with your own wire
Have a vape (still cold/weak - try higher tcr, too hot - try lower tcr), by just changing to the different profile or material immediately

Now you should have an idea if you need to go to even higher values (still too cold at 140)
or lower values (too hot at 120)
Keep doing that until you feel you're in the ballpark.
Trash your tested material profiles, and either leave what you liked as just the TCRnumber or name it Notch or whatever is meaningful to you.

Final thoughts .... just run in straight wattage mode where you know it works great.

For this anomaly wouldn't you want to pose your question to the coil manufacturer?

If any of you guys @giz @awsum @VB @chunky think i'm off my rocker, I can delete this, just let me know (pm or publicly)


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giz_60

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Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayneo

TLDR; Try my Goldilocks method.

Hey @sdmf74 I think VB said it best "True, but I don't think it is getting anywhere 600 F in this case" when even you get different results with your known/handbuilt coils/wire. SS being an alloy, we all know the wire composition can vary batch. We also know how honest China companies are.

Are there any other TC coils you could try for that tank, or a rebuildable deck option?

Other than, why not try @Chunky's suggestion of modifying the curve or a custom TCR for those coils.
Here's what I'd do (as I don't have a thermoprobe, and you want to rule out a connection issue).

Create a material type with a TCR value of 120 (.00120) name it tcr120, and another of 140.
Load them both on your mod either in a new profile or just material type

With your ohms not locked try your coil at your regular 600F with your regular profile.
Let your resistance refine

Change to new material type (tcr120 or tcr140) without removing atty AND also adjust/Set your temp at what you normally like/remember (4xx - 5xx) with your own wire
Have a vape (still cold/weak - try higher tcr, too hot - try lower tcr), by just changing to the different profile or material immediately

Now you should have an idea if you need to go to even higher values (still too cold at 140)
or lower values (too hot at 120)
Keep doing that until you feel you're in the ballpark.
Trash your tested material profiles, and either leave what you liked as just the TCRnumber or name it Notch or whatever is meaningful to you.

Final thoughts .... just run in straight wattage mode where you know it works great.

For this anomaly wouldn't you want to pose your question to the coil manufacturer?

If any of you guys @giz @awsum @VB @chunky think i'm off my rocker, I can delete this, just let me know (pm or publicly)



Not off your rocker at all...i basically did the same thing because I wasn't happy with the Steam Engine TCR value...I have all my devices SS316L TCR set at .00105...and thats for my hand rolled coils....[thumb]
retird

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Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdmf74
........ I like to vape primarily temp control and stainless steel coils and the majority of stainless steel coils from eleaf and aspire require a higher temp setting than 600f. I find myself vaping at 600f and getting a weak vape,........


Which specific premade coils are you using and which atty are you using them in?  How about a link to the Eleaf and Aspire coils you use.

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Wayneo

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Reply with quote  #27 
Thanks @retird, I think it's the 1st time you've chimed in, or your name certainly would have been included. [smile]
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sdmf74

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Reply with quote  #28 
I think thats a good idea probably the only option I have at this point but like I said I wish I had a better understanding of TCR and changing the values. If anyone has any good links you could post so I can learn how please do?

I dont think it has much to do with the tank but Ive noticed it with the Melo 2/3, Lemo 3, and even the Crown 2 SS coils. Funny thing is I can take my crown 2 of my new dna 250 (or any of my DNA devices) barely puffin vapor @ 600F and pop it on my 2.5 year old $30 Evic vtc mini and it vapes fine. These are NOT knockoff coils, I know ebay sells knockoff coils but these are not it btw.

EC NC 0.25OHM HEAD
ECL 0.30OHM HEAD
UWELL CROWN II TANK COIL

 

retird

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Reply with quote  #29 
THX for the links to the coils...

I've not used any of those coils but I do use Aspire ss316 coils and Wismec Notch coils (similar coil as the one in the EC NC 0.25ohm Head). My experience has been that all of the ones I use operate well within the wattage specs of the coil @ 400 to 450F for me. I use these coils in the attys recommended by the manufacturer.  

Quite a while ago I purchased an atty that was said to be compatible with the Aspire coils.  I tested it using the coils I like and got the exact results you are getting (but I didn't run the temp up to 600F).  I did boost the temp up to 550F and got a weak vape so I made sure I tightened all connections and made sure all 510 connections were clean and making a solid connection. The vape then reached 550F and about blew my head off.... was very hot....  Needless to say I don't use that atty.... [smile]  

I always make sure both the atty and device are at room temperature when starting a new coil or switching atty's...

Probably not much help to you but that's what I got....

Here is the .cvs file for the SS316L material I use...

csv SS316L.csv     

Hope you get it figured out....





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